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Message # 64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1.1

Subject: Band Re:right and wrong

Date: Wed 27/05/15 03:18:31 GMT

Name: Manta us

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Regardless who was right or wrong, Jurgen ~ you really could have been much nicer about everything without all the name-calling. I've purchased your material in the past, and I'm now reluctant to do so in the future due to how angry you got over what I feel is something fairly trivial. It seems very unprofessional, MK clearly stated it wasn't his intention to slander your name from the beginning. Take this all as a learning experience. Just my 2¢.
In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1) Info right and wrong

By Jürgen - wet-fashion-fun@ws-net.net de Tue 26/05/15 22:46:30 GMT

Website:


Thank you for your comment Ed.

 

For me it looks like Mark (MK) is playing a game with us. If someone presents the truth, he changes his position to fit in the new situation, but still says that he was allways correct and all others are wrong.

 

To make it easy for people to read it, here is a list of Marks statements (all copy and paste, nothing changed):

 

"Wet Fashion fun was then sold to new owners" - wrong

"Thomas is the producer for Wet Fashion Fun," - wrong

"the German TV producer clearly says "wet-fasihion-fun" in her 1997 tv report on Thomas Mainer." - wrong

"you just adopted the term and brandname Thomas had already made famous in the 1990's." - wrong

"you are merely highlighting something that could lead you to a lawsuit if Thomas ever comes back and wants to file a claim against your company" - wrong

"The lesson to learn is, please improve your style of writing in English" - wrong (haha, ok 50% right, but other 50%, your own lesson is missing)

 

All of this can be found in Marks comments and nothing of this is correct. Here is the simple story and as the owner of WetFashionFun, I really know what I'm talking about:

 

Thomas Mainer is a favorite German wetlook producer of the 90's, his company was called "Wet Fashion"

The company "Wet Fashion" has nothing to do with the wetlook brand "Wet Fashion Fun" of my company "WS net"

There is no branding problem, there has never been any discussion with Thomas Mainer about this and there are no problems or conflicts about this

We have checked our brand name 2000 when we started, it was fine and it is still fine.

 

People can tell me "ungrateful" or "boor" or whatever they like. It doesn't change the facts. Mark, I'm open to shake hands, no problem, but sorry, I would never say that you have been right. That's my position.

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2) Talking Re:OT

By Soak_ed - soak_ed@hotmail.com pl Tue 26/05/15 21:43:12 GMT

Website:


With all due respect Mark, you started out saying the name of Thomas' company was "Wet Fashion Fun".  Now you are calling it "Wet Fashion" which is what Juergen was trying to say all along. As you are a native English speaker, I am sure you are aware that the one word "Fun" makes a big difference,  Being in the US for many years ins no excuse.  "Wet Fashion" is not "Wet Fashion Fun" although they are very similar.  You also twisted my words, when I agreed with Juergen that Thomas' company was Wet Fashion, not Wet Fashion Fun and you used me to defend your position, which I wasn't doing.  Although Juergen could have been a little more polite, I can understand his frustration when you change your argument so you could insist you were right instead of admitting the validity of what Juergen was saying.  I think that is rather disingenuous behavior.  I knew Rob Blaine from when I lived in Texas since about 1994 until his untimely death and have known of you since then as well.   I also personally know Juergen, Thomas Mainer, Hans (formerly of Akuna Video), Frank from TLHS and several other folks in the business.  They are all fine people, as I am sure you are a fine person.  I have to say that you can come across, probably unintentionally, as quite arrogant at times.  You are the metaphorical 800 pound gorilla in the world of wetllook and there is no need to throw your weight around, almost all of us are aware of who you are and what you have done for the community and we appreciate it, even if we don't always acknowledge it.   It is a relatively small community we inhabit and we should all try to get along.
In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1) None OT

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Tue 26/05/15 16:43:25 GMT

Website:


OK, so I think we can agree that I do not know the German language and your knowledge of the English language is very poor as well, because you have a totally rude writing style and repeatedly keep making personal attacks on my name by repeatedly calling me "stubid" and arrogant, and I have never once made any personal remarks about you and all I did was state the known facts about the wet fashion brand name in the 1990s, which is something you do not have knowledge about because I was on the wam scene since 1991 and saw this term being used many times in Splosh magazine and other promotions and tv clips during the 1990's, so all I was stating was that the wet fashion term and brand name originated with Thomas Mainer. You were not on the wam scene in the 1990's and only arrived on the scene in 2001 so my knowledge of the 1990's wam era is extensive and you were not around at that time.

 

The lesson to learn is, please improve your style of writing in English and write more politely in future and stop calling me names like "stubid" and arrogant. If you wish to issue a clarification or correction on something please do it politely and then you will get a polite response from me, but when you attack me and call me names like "stubid" and arrogant, then I will respond accordingly to somebody who is being extremely rude and using personal remarks.

 

MK

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1) Info Re:Agree entirely with 'WAM photography'.

By Jürgen - wet-fashion-fun@ws-net.net de Tue 26/05/15 14:35:43 GMT

Website: Wet Fashion Fun


Hello!

 

Thank you for your statement and yes, I'm totally in line with you.

 

I didn't continue the discussion, cause I thought it has come to a hopeless level. An American guy wants to explain a native German speaker whats fact in a German TV show. This could be funny, if it would not show the level of complete ignoring of any facts, which is the typical style of Mr. MK.

 

The same with the complete strange brand name discussion. Our brand name is unique, there has never been anything registered like this and there has never been any diskussion about our brand name. Sorry, but  again this a level of arrogance that can make me angry. I didn't get into this discussion with MK, cause again it is completely hopeless.

 

And it is not the first time he tells stupid stories about our company and our work. I remember his totally wrong statement about our feature movie and the wetlook edition. No knowledge about the facts, but telling fancy stories like he would know everything. And even if all people tell him that he's wrong, no word like "sorry, I was wrong".

 

That are the things that make me very angry and that can motivate me to write statements like my first statement.

 

I'm sorry for writing things in too hard words. That's not helpful, I should be more carefull in the future.

 

Thanks again for your help and your understanding.

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2.1) Thumbs Up Agree entirely with 'WAM photography'. [nt]

By jollywetfellow - sx Tue 26/05/15 13:03:57 GMT

Website:


(no text)
In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1.2) None Re:ignoring the facts

By WAM Photography - chris@wetandmessyphotography.com at Tue 26/05/15 10:40:33 GMT

Website: http://www.wetandmessyphotography.com// wetandmessyphotography.com


Hi Guys,

 

I just happen to read through this thread and perhaps I can assist a little in geeting this sorted out.

@MK ... I did listen carefully and at 0:23 of your video clip the narrator says "... Seine Wet Fashion Film Produktion residiert ..." ... since the audio is a little blurred it may be hard to decipher for a non native speaker.

The other issue here is, that a brand name or company name (of a registered company) is not automatically protected as far as I know. You have to apply for a protected brand (costs money) in a certain country or in the Euopean Union.

You can research existing protected brands in germany  here ... https://register.dpma.de/DPMAregister/marke/einsteiger.

 

@Jürgen ... I understand your regarding your frustration about your brand probably being confused repeatedly. But I think your first reply could have been stated a little calmer. No need to use harsh retoric when you just want to get the facts straight, which again is totally understandable!

 

just my 2cents

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1.1) None Re:ignoring the facts

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Mon 25/05/15 23:33:36 GMT

Website:


Then you are sending your complaints to the wrong person...send them to Liebe Sunde tv show, cos you are not listening carefully to what the German TV producer says iin the 1997 clip I uploaded....please listen carefully at the 23 second mark, because she clearly says "wet-fasihion-fun" in her 1997 tv report on Thiomas Mainer.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joVueIObaTw&feature=youtu.be

 

Play it back 2-3 times and you hear the words wet-fashion-fun very clearly in 1997, so this was a term used by Thomas Mainer and created by him in the 1990's many years before your company started to use the same term..

 

The only incorrect assumption I made was that I assumed that you had a connection to Thomas and had taken over his old brand name, which is a natural assumption to make because you need to have permission and pay compensation  to take over a brand name otherwise what happens is that things end up in court like the famous case between the original creators of Apple Corps (the Beatles) and the computer company later founded by Steve Jobs. So it was natural for me to assume that you either had a relationship to Thomas or had paid him a settlement in order to acquire the brand name he made famous in Germany in the 1990's. The Apple vs Apple case went on for 28 years, and resultied in Apple computer company finally paying 500 million dollars in settlements to acquire all rights to that brand name.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

 

I made a logical assumption that you must have made an agreement with Thomas to acquire his brandname, so I can see why this has touched a raw nerve with you because now you say you had no connection to Thomas and so you just adopted the term and brandname Thomas had already made famous in the 1990's..

 

But you would have been better off to ignore my message and not make such a big deal of this on a public forum, cos you are merely highlighting something that could lead you to a lawsuit if Thomas ever comes back and wants to file a claim against your company and ask for a settlement....so it is better if if you stop prolonging this very BORING thread..

 

You should have seen the subtle compliment I paid you....i.e. the old Apple company produced great things....but the new Apple company produced even greater things.....so a great company name can be acquired and turned into an even greater company.

 

MK

 

 

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1.1) Thumbs Down ignoring the facts

By Jürgen - wet-fashion-fun@ws-net.net de Mon 25/05/15 22:48:40 GMT

Website:


Hey Mr. MK, sorry but seems to be hopeless. You don't read other people's statements, you don't check your own statements.

 

Soak Ed and myself too, have written to you that Mr. Mainers company was called "Wet Fashion", NOT "Wet Fashion Fun" and that both have nothing to do with each other. You seem to ignore this completely.

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1.1) None Re:sorry, you are totally wrong

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Mon 25/05/15 22:38:36 GMT

Website:


I just report on the facts, and the facts are that the brandname "Wet Fashion Fun" was originially created by a guy called Thomas Mainer in the mid 1990's, and that Thomas disappeared from the wam scene in the late 1990's. These are pure facts evidenced by the tv clips I have and  the 1997 tv commentator on tv referring to "wet fashion fun" as Thomas' company, and Soaked Ed says has has tapes from Thomas in the 1990's using that term as well.

 

I have been a wam producer since 1991 and we all knew in the 1990s that certain keywords were a brandname owned by certain producers...e.g. the term "Messy Fun" was a brand name made famous by Rob Blaine and the term "Splosh" was a term invented by Bill Shipton of Splosh magazine and Thomas Mainer was the person who made the term "wet fashion fun" famous in Germany in 1990's

 

I am not saying that your company that was founded much later in 2001 does not have the right to use the brandname Thomas created, because his company shut down in the late 1990's and Thomas disappeared from the scene, so you have every right to take over an abandoned brand name. It seems this is no different to the brand name "Apple Corps"...which was a brand name created by the The Beatles in 1969 for their recording label, but 7 years later Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs created their company Apple Corps and Apple Inc in 1976....because by then the Beatles old recording label had gone out of busness and was no longer being used any more....so thats fine.....but there is no denying who was the creator of the Apple brandname and Apple logo......it was The Beatles and not Steve Jobs

 

MK

 

ps....Rob Blaine was very protective of his brand name "Messy Fun" in the 1990's and whenever I made a freudian slip in my typing of the descriptions for my videos and I accidentally put the words "messy" and "fun" in the same sentence.....Rob would send me an email asking me to rewrite my descriptions.....cos he told me that any use of the words "messy" and fun"  together in a sentence were banned because those were an infringement of his rights, cos he owned the rights to those 2 words being used together....so I sometimes made a natural error of using those 2 words in a description...and he would spot that and drop me a note asking me to re-word my description.

 

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2.1) Depressed Re:sorry, you are totally wrong

By Jürgen - wet-fashion-fun@ws-net.net de Mon 25/05/15 22:04:51 GMT

Website: Wet Fashion Fun


Yes, I know this: "Wet Fashion". He sold very good physical photo sets too. That's all fine.

 

But it has nothing to do with our company, which even has a different name. And I still wonder how Mr. "MK" thinks he can write stubid stories and even do not accept that he is wrong.

In reply to Message (64434.1.6.2) Talking Re:sorry, you are totally wrong

By Soak_ed - soak_ed@hotmail.com pl Mon 25/05/15 21:57:20 GMT

Website:


Juergen, Thomas' company was called "Wet Fashion".  I have an old VHS tape from him and that is what it says on the tape.  The confusion with the name of your company is understandable.
In reply to Message (64434.1.6) Angry sorry, you are totally wrong

By Jürgen - wet-fashion-fun@ws-net.net de Mon 25/05/15 19:27:09 GMT

Website: Wet Fashion Fun


Sorry, I just like to explain, that my company "Wet Fashion Fun" has NOT been bought from anyone called "Thomas" or anyone else, cause I have started this company by myself in 2001. I wonder why people need to tell stubid storys if they don't know anything about the facts. Angry
In reply to Message (64434.1) None It was a 1990's documentary on Wet Fashion Fun

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Sun 24/05/15 17:06:21 GMT

Website:


I remember it and I know I have it somehwere on an old VHS tape, but can't seem to find it in my archive records right now. This was one of three mid 90's tv documentaries I have from German tv shows that did 5 minute documentary features on wet & messy producer Thomas Mainer, who was the creator and original owner of the Wet Fashion Fun company in Germany. I found the 2 wetlook documentaries I have on Thomas, one was from the Pro7 channel show "Liebe Sunde" and the other was from a tv show caleld "Sexorama". These documentaries show lots of scenes from his wetlook shootings. As I recall, at that time in 1996 Thomas was the only wet & messy producer in Germany using professional broadcast cameras (Sony Betacams), so he was the first professional WAM producer to start up In Germany in the mid 90's and was a counterpart to Rob Blaine's Messy Fun company in the USA and the Artscene/Aquantics and Splosh companies in the UK.  The 3rd documentary (I know I have it on some tape, but cannot find it in my records right now) showed Thomas and his models doing a mud shoot at what looked like a clay gravel quarry....I will keep looking to see if I can find it.

 

Thomas created some good stuff from 1994 to 1999  but then he suddenly he disappeared in the late 1990's and has never been heard of since. His company Wet Fashion fun was then sold to new owners and still continues to this day, so maybe they have copies of these old tv documentaries.

 

MK

In reply to Message (64434) None Search for old RTL messy movie from the late 1990s

By msmud - pt4230-435@online.de de Sun 24/05/15 10:06:54 GMT

Website:


Hi all,

 

does someone remember, respectively has recording of a 3-5mins report on a messy community in an area around Hannover, displayed on a RTL daily TV magazine somewhere in the llater 1990/earyl 2000 ?  The scene I remember was about a gravel pit, 4 ladies/girls in formal/business clothes and a guy who did the filming an a bit of interview.  Finally all the girls hopped into the mud and were filmed.  Thanks for any hints where to find get.

 

Msmud

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