minx

Wetlook World Forum

Current time: Thu 28/03/24 10:45:25 GMT

Translate page FROM gb -> TO de fr it nl es pt jp

Translate page TO gb <- FROM de fr it nl es pt jp

Wetlook.Biz
Wetlook-Online

Message # 68779.2.1.1.2.1.1

Subject: Info Re:economics and demographics

Date: Sun 20/11/16 16:59:09 GMT

Name: leonmoomin gb

Email: leon@mostwam.com

Website: http://mostwam.tv/

Report Abuse or Problem to Nigel at Minxmovies
If you enjoy this forum, then please make a small donation to help
with running costs: Make Donation (you can change amount)

Previous Reply
Next New Message
Active List Archive

Thanks for the references.

 

I agree, there are way too many producers and not enough customers, we all have to work in that environment these days.

I must admit, I am also in the great position of not just liking and producing Wetlook, I also like and produce mud and messy, so I have a slightly broader audience than most.

 

I have always worked to a simple plan, the more people spend, the cheaper it gets!

Important part of that statement, "The more people spend".

 

I would prefer 100 people to spend $4 than 10 people to spend $10.

Although, I would prefer those 100 people to spend $15 or $20, so if by lowering the price for more content gets them to do it, that's what I do, particularly if by doing so, you encourage anther 100 or 400 people to spend.

 

I personally love the streaming method, it gives me a chance to show what we can really do and for lots of people to watch what they might not otherwise.

 

I have a massive WAM collection, how often do I look at it, how easy is it to find what i want to watch?

Downloading media is time consuming, then there's all the people who would contact me about losing their collections due to hard drive crashes etc.

I would rather watch one of my free videos of Lisa getting wet or messy on my Youtube channel than search through my collections, why?  It's just easier and I can do it wherever I have internet.

I know there are some who have organised their collections much better than me, but, my idea is simple, make it easier to watch on-line than it is from your collections.

I mean, once you've downloaded something, how often do you watch it?  

I know there are standout scenes, but seriously, we've all got massive collections of stuff we'll never watch more than once.

 

Why go to all the bother of trying to find the stolen media on-line, when it is so much easier to find everything in one place for a simple fee?

I am aware of all the negatives of streaming, but, the way I see it, if you keep banging out great, varied content, people will keep coming back and spending money.

 

At the end of the day, I produce media for people to enjoy, what is the point of it all if only a few people watch it?

 

leonmoomin

 

 

 

In reply to Message (68779.2.1.1.2.1) Talking Re:economics and demographics

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net ca Sat 19/11/16 15:10:21 GMT

Website:


You've just prompted me to consider one other point about economics... given two or more choices which are of equal value in the mind of the consumer, he will choose the one of least cost. It makes perfect sense. This drive to get the most for the least cost is what leads to the pattern you described. On the other hand, it is the same drive that leads me to favor individual purchase over subscription - I feel that I ultimately get more for less.
In reply to Message (68779.2.1.1.2) None Re:economics and demographics

By EdR - asplashofglamour@gmail.com uu Sun 13/11/16 23:14:55 GMT

Website: www.asplashofglamour.com


As a small producer myself, I completely agree with MK. We couldn't stay in business running a membership site for the reasons MK laid out. It is human nature. Customers will sign up, download everything, then cancel at the end of the month. It would be no different if we happened to run a small neighborhood grocery store and charged a membership fee to shop there. People would go in and strip the shelves clean which would be a huge amount of inventory, then not come back. Now I admit, this may seem to be a great deal for customers, but it's not a great deal for us. Our plan is really simple, if you like something we offer, you can buy it, just like when you shop and buy at your local grocery store. We try to offer a unique style that might appeal to everyone and we are always trying to offer more, for reasonable prices.

 

EdR

asplashofglamour.com

In reply to Message (68779.2.1.1) None economics and demographics

By MK - wamtec@comcast.net us Sun 13/11/16 19:50:50 GMT

Website:


The points raised are valid but I would like to add some perspective from a Producers point of view.

 

Firstly, I am very grateful to the 1% because it was a small handful of 1%'ers in the 1990's who helped me fund all my wetlook projects in the 1990's and helped me get started....i.e. every year from 1991 to 1998 I had a loyal bunch of sponsors who financed up to 50% of my production costs each year in order to produce custom videos according to their scripts and clothing choices, so without the support of the 1% in the 1990's I would not have been able to produce wetlook media. The 1% were great to me in the 1990's, but sadly the 1% largely disappeared after 1999, mostly because when technology improved and cameras and editing became affordable to the masses most of my former 1% sponsors evolved and became Producers in their own right.....so my biggest supporters in the 1990's, became my competitors in the 2000's. But that's life.....i.e. I started producing wetlook videos because other entities like Playboy did not portray wetlook to my tastes.....so the old rule applies "if you want the job done right....do it yourself"......and that is why many of my biggest sponsors in the 1990's later decided to become producers themselves, because they each have their own style and preferences and the best way to achieve your goals is to shoot stuff yourself. Anyway....the 1% (big sponsors) do not seem to exist today (from a Producers prospective) because most them have evolved today into being Producers themselves, or they do not wish to spend money due to the "devaluation of wetlook" effect caused by Youtube. A perfect example of that is that I used to have a sponsor who funded thousands of dollars every year for 8 years in order for me to produce a series of wet sweater videos, but as soon as Youtube arrived on the scene (in 2005) that sponsor was able to find lots of free media on Youtube I never heard from him again. So, here are the economic and demographic changes I have experienced over the last 20 years.....

 

-Number of wetlook producers in 1996 = 8

-Number of wetlook producers in  2016 = 300+ (listed on UMD and Topwam)

-Number of wetlook fans worldwide in 1996 = 25,000-30,0000

-Number of wetlook fans worldwide in 2016 = 25,000-30,0000 (more or less the same, no growth)

-Number of active wetlook customers in 1996 = 5000-7000

-Number of active wetlook customers in 2016 = 3000-5000

-Amount of free media available in 1996 = zero

-Amount of free media available in  2016 = millions and millions (via Youtube and other streaming sites)

RESULT = in 1996 there were 8 producers who each had a slice of the pie of 5000-7000 customers and thus were able to cover their costs. In 2016 we have a dwindling base of 3000-5000 customers (due to Youtube and other free media sources) and a huge base of 300+ producers, none of whom get enough slice of the pie and merely get a few crumbs, hence covering production costs in 2016 is very very difficult.

 

-Price of high quality video equipment and editing gear and hosting costs in 1996 = $20,000 to $50,000

-Price of high quality video equipment and editing gear in 2016 = less than $300 for a decent HD camera and editing software and hosting costs are dirt cheap now = a huge reduction in costs

-The double edge sword = sure, the technology is very cheap today, but that is why we have a "flood" of new producers today, making it very hard for any producer to cover their costs due to too much competition

 

-The cost to hire wetlook models in 1996....versus the costs to hire models today in 2016.....are more or less the same....i.e. technology, video equipments and hosting costs may be dirt cheap today, but the biggest cost is hiring models and booking locations to do shoots. Travel costs and location costs are twice what they were 20 years ago.

 

Regarding monthly versus 90 day descriptions, that is purely a matter of economics and human nature. Monthly subscriptions work well for entities like Netflix and Hulu because Netflix has 46 million subscribers and 46 million people giving you $9.99 per month works well as a business model. But the reality of wetlook sites today is that most of them struggle to get even a mere 100 subscribers and unless you can get 300+ subscribers you cannot break even with your production costs and technology infrastructure costs. So....with less than 300 subscribers (which most wetlook producer are) you don't break even and then you have the "human nature" factor come into play....i.e. if you run a small membership site that has a small membership base, if you just offer a monthly membership then a large number of people just sign up for one month only, and then they grab everything on your entire site in that one month for $9.99 and then they cancel at the end of the month and do not re-new, and that is the fast track to bankruptcy, We experienced this first hand with some of our membership sites when we offered a monthly membership, and folks would join for one monthly only and then rape us and cancel at the end of the month, and we could not survive under those circumstances. So we had to switch to a mininmum 90 day membership for $40 in order to avoid the massive cancellatons from "one month only" customers who were driving us out of business. I would also say that our prices ARE reasonable given that if you buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks for 90 days you would spend $450 over 90 days, so our prices are only 10% of what you pay for a cup of coffee. As an example, when we launched our http://wamflix.com streaming site earlier this year, we initially had over 900 videos streaming on the site and we offered monthly memberships, and we had lots of people sign up for one month only, download everything on the site, and then 50% of the people cancelled after one month and did not renew.Despite having new updates since then every week.....human nature seemed to be....why bother to pay for a monthly membership....I will just sign up for one month only download everything, then cancel, then wait a year until the site has another 12 months of new updates, and then sign up for one month again and rape the site again in 12 more months. This is fine for the consumer....but this is a deathnail for us cos we can;t even meet our costs if we only have "one month only" members....we can only survive with continuing members. And so we eliminated the monthly membership and offered a 90 day membership for $40 instead....because then we have more continuity in our membership base.

 

Also.....when you say "I applaud your energy to produce wetlook content, but c'mon, we're not stupid".....I appreciate that.....but neither are we stupid either...we have to set prices in order to sustain our costs and stay in business producing more content...otherwise we have to shut down the site. We appreciate the fact that Youtube has devalued wetlook and turned it from wine into free water.....so as you say..."get real"......we are getting real.....and the facts are that wetlook was once an appreciated commodity and today it has been devalued to next to nothing and if you charge more than $5 for it you are going to be compared to the value that Youtube offers (i.e. free) and we cannot compete etc.

 

Being a wetlook producer is definitely not a viable prospect in 2016 and the only people who remain in this industry are the producers who are diehard fans of wetlook themselves who do it not for profit motives (cos it is not viable under today's trends) but they do it as a passion and their hobby and if they can break even with expenses that is considered to be a success, and if they can't then it does not matter to them because they still love what they do anyway.

 

As they say "the customer is always right".....and today they compare everything against the benchmark of free media (Youtube) and demand higher quality at lower and lower prices. That would be fine if there were enough potential customers out there willing to pay to see wetlook.....but there is no sizeable base of wetlook customers any more. Today there are still only 25,000 wetlook fans around the world, which is no different to 20 years ago, but 20 years ago a sizeable number of those 25,000 people would support the 8 wetlook producers in 1996. Today there are still only 25,000 wetlook producers and 80% of those folks only support free media (Youtube) and the remaining 5000 folks now have 300+ wetlook producers offering them goods for sale, so 300 into 5000 means that no producer is able to capture more than a mere 5% of the market share of those customers.which means you are lucky to get 50 members or 50 downloads of a video these days.

 

It is ironic that today nobody complains about spending $1000+ for a computer or $650 for an iphone and people will gladly pay $100 per month for their internet service......but they complain about the producers who charge more than $5 for a download when that producer has to pay thousands of dollars to hire models and book locations etc.

 

I am not complaining.,....I am just telling it like it is.,,,,,i.e. we live in a pampered society today where folks are comparing everything to what they can find for free on sites like Youtube

 

So....to answer the question....."are wetlook sites worth the money".....the answer depends on your reference point. If you are compare to what you pay for a price of coffee at Starbucks...then wetlook is worth what you pay for it....but if you are comparing to what you can find for free on Youtube....then wetlook is not worth paying for.

 

I am actually surprised that so many wetlook producers are still around and have not quit already.....and I guess that is a testament to their passion for the subject matter, cos it is definitely not viable as a business,

 

MK.

 

In reply to Message (68779.2.1) Talking Re:Are wetlook sites worth the money?

By Bought a few - uu Sun 13/11/16 11:31:11 GMT

Website:


IMHO a lot of sites clearly are not worth the money. I have subscribed to about 4/5 of the major wetlook websites in the past, and came away totally frustrated, for 4 simple reasons.

The problems:

1) Framing. This is aggravating - the cameraman zooms in on the model and then goes all up and down on her. This is ridiculous. All you are seeing is 2 square inches of wet fabric. If I wanted that, I would go to a store, buy a blouse, wet it, and stare at it from 2 inches away. Porn producers do "push-ins" on nude models because it creates the illusion of physical intimacy. In wetlook - it just ruins the shot. I couldn't believe how many producers do this, it makes the video completely useless.

2) Wet hair. Something so simple, yet only 1 producer actually commits to it. The only reason to pay for wetlook is certainty - and yet sometimes a random youtube video is better than a "professional" produced wetlook video, just because of wet hair.

3) Outfits that make no sense. Take a look at modern TV shows, what reporters (and especially weather girls) are wearing. Then look at what models wear in current wetlook vids. They are like 2 decades behind. Sometimes 4 decades behind. I believe the reason for this is that men tend to be aroused by the same thing that first aroused them as a teenager - so a producer who was a teenager in 1982 will pick clothes from the 80's instead of the very sexy modern styles.

4) Attitudes. I prefer wetlook because it defeats narcissism, and promotes sensual arousal and vulnerability in the lady. I had narcissistic parents and I am hyper-sensitive to it, and can't get aroused at a narcissistic woman. Narcissism is ever-present in porn, (and most pop culture) so porn is completely useless for me. So I turn to wetlook and then the wetlook producers begin promoting narcissistic models. There is only one producer I know of who completely avoids it. Every other site - the model is staring dead into the camera, believing herself to be totally dominant in that situation, elevated, superior to, and having power over the viewer. Even Playboy in it's prime knew how to avoid this - much to their financial benefit - promoting the "girl next door" type model. In the reverse, sometimes the producer dominates the model, publicly degrading her, using mild humiliation and power plays on her. I have no need for this, this is ridiculous.

Of course this could be completely different for you, and those 4 reasons might not be important to you at all.

In reply to Message (68779.2) Talking Re:Are wetlook sites worth the money?

By AnthonyX - anthonyx@jowc.net ca Sun 13/11/16 05:35:01 GMT

Website:


I'm nowhere close to the top 1%; perhaps around the 60th or 70th percentile (just under the top 30 or 40 percent). I have over the years bought many hours of wetlook - VCR tapes, DVDs, and downloads. I've never subscribed to a site, only paid for specific tapes/DVDs/clip files. OK, I did have one subscription - basically what gave me a discount rate on scene purchases. In my mind, individual item purchases are a better value than subscriptions because I only pay for the content I want. I generally found tapes/DVDs to be of less value than downloads because I pay only for what interests me most, where tapes/DVDs have always been packaged as assortments of scenes, some of which I like, some I never bothered to watch. That's why I never buy the "standard" site subscriptions - they are a content crap shoot - only a fraction of the available content may be interesting, but I would have to pay for all of it. Subscriptions may be problematic in that regard for the producers too... if they post a variety of content under one subscription umbrella, how are they going to know what their audience really likes and what to not waste their resources on? With scene downloads, it's much more clear - whatever sells the most is what they should be making more of.

In reply to Message (68779) Question Are wetlook sites worth the money?

By Wet Guy - uu Sun 13/11/16 01:37:31 GMT

Website:


Hi all -

 

Now I would be in the top 1% in the US - you know, the people that have too much money and don't pay enough tax to finance the welfare state as they say  Be that as it may

 

But even with that, I buy what I think provides value.  I would subscribe to a lot of sites and buy a lot more clips if they were more reasonably priced,  I personally think the the sweetspot for a subscription  is about $9 per month with a 30 day minimum.  If you have great stuff a d terrific updates people will continue.  But these 90 day subscriptions for big prices for what you show on this site is sort of ridiculous.  Leon's site is awesome (Mostwam TV)  and for the volume of stuff he offers and continuous updates is well worth the price (I am a subscriber.)  But when I look at others here there is no compelling volume of offerings or just the same old stuff.  You other producers have to get real ... if you have great stuff, offer it at a reasonable price and keep providing it with great updates,   If you don.t, quit with the 90 day minimums and just offer your stuff for a cheap price on clips for sale.

 

 

Don't misunderstand - I applaud your energy to produce wetlook content, but c'mon, we're not stupid.  Offer it at a reasonable price and you will get many more sales.  I am just trying to help you make more money!

 

Just my opinion.  My fellow wetookers - what do you think?

Report Abuse or Problem to Nigel at Minxmovies
If you enjoy this forum, then please make a small donation to help with running costs: Make Donation (you can change amount)

All WAM Drunk Sex Orgy Wetlook-Online
WetLooker.com

Minx Movies - M12 - Dressed in Wet is now in the Download Store
Download Store

Minx Movies - M15 - Wet Me Now is now in the Download Store
Download Store

Minx Movies - M14 - Get Wet With Me is now in the Download Store
2ipmd65.jpg2ipmdg2.jpgckfbj77.jpgjapgs25.jpgzgjbt99.jpg Download Store 2fpbs94.jpgkijws74.jpgrlsps97.jpglasbjg7.jpg2fptg96.jpg2gpdde7.jpg


Minx Movies - M8 - Mask Of Wetness is now in the Download Store
Download Store



[ This page took 0.048 seconds to generate ]