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Message # 100375.4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1

Subject: None Re:Mark AI or not, in the end it does not matter

Date: Mon 14/10/24 23:01:27 GMT

Name: Anonymous uu

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How so though? An AI picture of a girl jogging in the rain smiling is just that, an AI picture with some pre-rendered smile that does not match the occasion. The two real life girls looking bored, well why are they bored? What are they bored about? What comes next? How do they deal with their boredom? How will interact with each other? See, the human thing. Even a bored expression is unique for every person.
In reply to Message (100375.4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1) None Re:Mark AI or not, in the end it does not matter

By Oldbewet - eu Mon 14/10/24 20:26:39 GMT

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of course i am open to spontane changes to the script, even some of my weddingvideos ended way out of script, but again, we are talking about staged wetlook pictures. of course sometimes things can work out of script, a model could be crying where you expect a smile or look sad when she should be laughing. i once had bride that could not stop laughing while her father was giving a speech. But i did not write the script, so i do not really known any errors, so i have to assume to everything is happening like it was planned. these are photos not movies showing the hole timeline.

 

A picture can or should tell a hole story, An AI-picture of a woman jogging in the rain with a smiling face is telling better story than a reallife picture of two girls with bored looking faces standing next to a pool with their hands just hanging down.   

In reply to Message (100375.4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1) None Re:Mark AI or not, in the end it does not matter

By Propergamer - uu Mon 14/10/24 02:09:46 GMT

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Ok, so you work as a professional (and so do I) but aren't you open to the improvisation, lucky bloopers, and generally the participants going of script and showing their personality? Isn't that what adds humanity to the whole experience? It's like listening to a live drummer versus a drum machine. Human touch cannot be emulated.
In reply to Message (100375.4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1) Talking Re:Mark AI or not, in the end it does not matter

By Oldbeewet - eu Sun 13/10/24 23:01:56 GMT

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well, i have no model, no location, no equipment and no motiviation to do wetlookshoots or films, OK, equipment is just a matter of money, a place could be found, a model could be hired. Still i have no meotivation.

 

As i said, if i pay a model for the job, it is a job and i expect her to show what is in the script, we can talk about her emotions later , but during the shoot it i want her to show the emotions and poses that are in the script, YES, a bit of acting is required. Sound cruel, may be cruel, but it is the truth.  That's how filming and fotoshoots work. If i work as profesional, i want the model to be professional.

 

A model like inna in elena sochi's videos acts like a pro, she knows about her "fans", she knows what they want to see. I am quite shure she does not just for the fun. Yes, she makes me believe, that it is fun to her, i hope it is fun to her and no forces her to act like she does. In the end is see elena videos also as video, that could teach a photographer and model how working together could be done, because you have a commentrack in the video, done by voice and bodylanguage.

 

But in the end. i like to say, that allmost all staged wetlook is fake with fake emotions. So i really do not a big difference to AI.

 

Nigel has to decide if posts should be marked or not. But in the end, i do not care if a picture is marked AI or not. I can detect most AI without marking, if i can not, i guess i am fine with the  picture. I guess, none of these picture will end up as picture in my livingroom, most of them will be forgottten within 1 minute after seeing the for the first time. Even that sounds cruel, but it is still the truth.

In reply to Message (100375.4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1) None Re:*explores, not explodes LOL

By Propergamer - uu Sun 13/10/24 02:49:26 GMT

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Do a few qetlpok shoots then and see how it goes. Maybe then you'd realize that the emotion is more powerful than the technicality of the image. Just like you brought up Elena Sochi, her images aren't the best from the technical point of view, but the emotion is top notch. That's what separates real world world from AI .
In reply to Message (100375.4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1) Talking Re:*explores, not explodes LOL

By Oldbewet - eu Sat 12/10/24 21:55:11 GMT

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Well, i never did any wetlookshootings. During the time from 1988 to 1992 filmed politcal congresses, but also dancing schools, birthdaypartys and weddings.

 

Anyway, deep in my heart i am a perfectionist, i love doing perfect work and i love working with people who love perfect work. At least, when filming a wedding i always had a script, i went throught the timeplans with the couple, even did some training shots. Sometimes they hated me for doing this, but in the end the movies got better. Maybe that's the reason why i expect, that producers do a little bit of "training" with their models. May i expect to much, maybe that's the reason why i got no real problems good AI.

 

On the other side, i know there are people out there, who have no sense for a good picture, before i started filming and taking pictures i was the same. I bought books and magazines, took part in contests, my best result was a 6. place for the picture of a lighning in the night.

 

But sometimes, i have the fear, that there are customers out there, who yust look for photos to jerk there willie off, so they don't care about the quality of a picture, they just care, that the model wears certain clothes.

In reply to Message (100375.4.1.1.1.1.1.1) None *explores, not explodes LOL [nt]

By Propergamer - uu Sat 12/10/24 15:52:43 GMT

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(no text)
In reply to Message (100375.4.1.1.1.1.1) None Re:It should be mandatory and part of the forum rules to mark AI-related posts

By Propergamer - uu Sat 12/10/24 15:51:17 GMT

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I don't know how many wetlook shoots you have done, but in my experience, even if the model doesn't necessarily like the feeling of wet clothes, we still communicate and bounce the ideas of each other which means she still explodes and reflects on the experience. I'd assume this happens in most wetlook shoots, look at the behind the scenes videos of Erik Elsas, or Styx (if you can will find them, they were great), and as for doing it for money, Streetspalsh public was amazing at that: the women were doing it for the money, but the feeling and emotion was still there regardless. My point is: even in staged wetlook there is a real person with feelings and personality. With AI it's just an algorithm that doesn't even have a physical body, so at best can theorize what wet clothes feel like.
In reply to Message (100375.4.1.1.1.1) Talking Re:It should be mandatory and part of the forum rules to mark AI-related posts

By Oldbeewet - eu Sat 12/10/24 12:20:56 GMT

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i am sorry, i do not get your point. is this supposed to be ironic or sacarstic?   As is said, to me staged wetlook and AI-wetlook are both not really real. If a real girl acts like she enjoys wetlook, but in the in end she does it just for the money, or if i tell an AI to generate a smiling girl in wet clothes? In the end, both are not real, both can be considered a lie. So where is teh difference?
In reply to Message (100375.4.1.1.1) None Re:It should be mandatory and part of the forum rules to mark AI-related posts

By Propergamer - uu Fri 11/10/24 22:27:45 GMT

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Sure, because the person in the photo wearing wet clothes is just a prop and never communicates any feelings that come with the experience through the body language or facial expressions etc...
In reply to Message (100375.4.1.1) Read This Re:It should be mandatory and part of the forum rules to mark AI-related posts

By Oldbewet - eu Fri 11/10/24 20:21:38 GMT

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Tastes are different, to me it is essential that the availible light is used in a proper way or the cameraoperator knows how to use additional lightning.

 

A good example that the availible light is not used properly is the last set postet bei Eric Elsas. YES, it shows two beautyful models in a nice location, but the camera is in the wrong place, facing against the sun, so the faces and the clothing of the models are in shadow. It's nice for the model if they have not to face the direct sunlight, but the pictures show much less then they could. A solution could be using some reflectors to lighten up the scene or a very powerful flashlight with the camera, maybe better both. Of course, that would require the equipment and a trained crew and models. Editing the pictures is another way to get better results. YES, that takes time und costs money. I do not know how much money you can earn with wetlookpictures, but i see there are producers out there who care about the setup of the location (like Victor for example) and others who don't give a f*ck. (and i honstly don not want to say that eric is a bad photographer. The set mentioned above is from 2015, he is very experienced and one of the best around here.

 

Anyway, almost all wetlook we see here is staged, there maybe some candid youtubes, so there are not many.

 

But when it comes to staged pictures, i want better pictures than this very often shown crap with bad perspective or light. When setting up a session it is the duty of the cameraman to take care of this. He has to talk to the models, he has teach them the script. During the late 80 / early i worked as cameraman during some political congresses, filmed some interviews with prominent politicians, some of these in spontane situations. I had to care about the light and we were a good team. And believe me, when filming interviews with politician, asking them to step to a better light is the smallest difficulty.

 

So i really do not see a big difference between staged wetlookpictures and AI-wetlook. Both cases are staged, but the AI knows the rules of light and photo. Yes, there are still some flaws in AI-picture, but the improvements during the last year are amazing. It gives me the fear that in only a few years, mayby months, you will no longer be able to detect an AI-picture with only a short look at it. Mayby you can no longer be shure if the picture of you crossing a red trafficlight is real or AI.

 

 

So where will this lead. AI will get better, that's for shure. Mayby we can hope that the real photographers will get better. Or they also start using AI.

 

But i am also shure, that marking pictures as AI will change nothing.  

 

By the way: recently, more or less by accident without searching, i came across the youtube chanel by "elena sochi". She has some very good and interesting wetlook videos, that not only shows exellent footage but also shows what a good photographer together with good modell can do and how they can interact. Someone speaking russian could possibly translate. And when you carefully look at the videos, you can see, that she only uses a smartphone for shooting, so big cameragear is not always the solution.

In reply to Message (100375.4.1) Exclamation Re:It should be mandatory and part of the forum rules to mark AI-related posts

By Propergamer - uu Fri 11/10/24 04:23:37 GMT

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For 99% even the worst live action wetlook is way better than the best AI. As for the poster names, what about the new/uncommon/anonymous posters? Definitely in favor of this rule.
In reply to Message (100375.4) Depressed Re:It should be mandatory and part of the forum rules to mark AI-related posts

By Oldbeewet - eu Tue 08/10/24 20:37:44 GMT

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oh yes. it could really make it easier to divide some good AI from pile of bad reallife here. Also, most of the  it could easyli be done by looking at the producers name ......  so NA, i don't think we need those markings
In reply to Message (100375) Idea It should be mandatory and part of the forum rules to mark AI-related posts

By pure-wetlook-fan - uu Tue 08/10/24 15:19:53 GMT

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A suggestion: I'm one of those who really isn't a fan of AI images. Ai is great for text-based and work-related purposes. But I personally find AI images terrible, strange, repulsive and very unnatural. My love of the wet look is massively disturbed by this. Personally, I only want to see natural images. Candid, scan, or professional, all ok. But just no AI. If there are friends and fans, that's ok. But I would be of the opinion that the posts in this forum should refer to real wetlook. Other things are also undesirable here. Naked skin, for example, male wetlook, messy posts are not usual here, etc. It should be the same with AI. Clear labeling. umd.net is already leading the way. What do you think?


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